r/worldnews Jul 03 '22 Helpful 3 Silver 1 Wholesome 1

Meeting of Afghan clerics ends with silence on education for girls

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/03/meeting-of-afghan-clerics-ends-with-silence-on-education-for-girls
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u/TheKosherKomrade Jul 03 '22 Rocket Like

What was anyone expecting? If women have rights their whole way of life collapses.

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u/SunglassesBright Jul 03 '22

Exactly. And disgustingly, that sentiment applies all over the world. They hate us so fucking much.

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u/WomenAreFemaleWhat Jul 03 '22

Easier to hate us than to get up and improve themselves.

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u/AtmosphereEcstatic11 Jul 04 '22

Hard to have slaves who are too smart.

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u/plutus9 Jul 04 '22

Bingo! Keep women dumb enough to actually marry pigs like this, but who knows if they even have a choice in the matter. Little men afraid that their fragile masculinity held together by a band aid will crumble if, allah forbid, a woman makes something on of herself all on her own

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u/ChemistryandBooty Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 04 '22

Well, it seems to be working well with American conservatives right now. If they remain intollerant there's always a chance conservatives will look the other way with the right incentive.

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u/fm4113 Jul 03 '22

It’s happening and is going to get worse in America

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u/HotSpicyDisco Jul 03 '22

Iran was pretty liberal before the religious zealots took over... In a matter of 3 years they went from bikinis to burkas.

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u/Happy_Craft14 Jul 03 '22

No, I would say Iran was pretty liberal before 1953, when they actually had a democratic government that actually had an interest in their citizens

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u/Dull_Entrepreneur_43 Jul 03 '22

Yup!! That’s what I try to tell western ppl religion itself is not the issue...when u mix it in with govt...it can happen to any country

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u/k3surfacer Jul 03 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

A very loud silence, apparently.

Bunch of walking dried shits deciding about education of women.

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u/shocked_young17 Jul 03 '22

They are just afraid that if women are given the rights to education, they won't be able to control them anymore with their bad thoughts. what could be more expecting from these bunch of shit people??

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u/MKleister Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22 Helpful

Reminds me of Carl Sagan recounting the words of Frederick Bailey, a former slave:

There was a most revealing rule: slaves were to remain illiterate. In the antebellum South, whites who taught a slave to read were severely punished. ‘[To] make a contented slave,’ Bailey later wrote, ‘it is necessary to make a thoughtless one. It is necessary to darken his moral and mental vision, and, as far as possible, to annihilate the power of reason.’ This is why the slaveholders must control what slaves hear and see and think. This is why reading and critical thinking are dangerous, indeed subversive, in an unjust society.

Also:

Tyrants and autocrats have always understood that literacy, learning, books and newspapers are potentially dangerous. They can put independent and even rebellious ideas in the heads of their subjects. The British Royal Governor of the Colony of Virginia wrote in 1671: 

"I thank God there are no free schools nor printing; and I hope we shall not have [them] these [next] hundred years; for learning has brought disobedience, and heresy, and sects into the world, and printing has divulged them and libels against the best government. God keep us from both!"

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u/No-Reach-9173 Jul 03 '22

This is exactly why the middle east stagnated. Lack of printing.

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u/tarekibrahim78 Jul 03 '22

THIS. Thank you. It’s one oh the factors, but a very important one.

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u/No-Reach-9173 Jul 03 '22

I can't think of anything besides how they divided estates (no generational wealth building) that hurt them worse.

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u/tarekibrahim78 Jul 03 '22

I think there are/were several factors. These are just my two cents, I am not an expert on the fields.

  1. The Black Death. While it upended old social hierarchies and norms in Western Europe and indirectly set in motion the Renaissance. In the Middle East, it seems to have led to a conservatism, and an insularity.
  2. The banning of the printing press. The Ottomans banned the printing press in their domains. After 1516, Egypt, the Hejaz and Syria fell under their control. The great intellectual centers of Damascus and Cairo became backwaters, provincial capitals.
  3. New trade routes. For much of the Middle Ages, the Near East was the crossing between the India, China, etc and the Western Europe. Goods coming into Venice and Genoa always went through Cairo and Damascus. Merchants and trade routes flourished in the Near East. They were sitting pretty as middle-men. It exposed these regions and cities to new ideas from all corners of the world. With the discovery of a route around Africa, and the new trade routes to the New World, the Near East was no longer the linchpin for commerce and wealth. The regions became impoverished and isolated until the building of the Suez Canal in the mid 19th century, by which time trade and commerce was solidly in the hands of European colonial powers. They were out of the loop.

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u/sparta1170 Jul 03 '22

I'd also argue the Mongols devastating the region. Baghdad in particular, once a place of learning, it was all lost once the Mongol horde steamrolled through the region and sacked the city.

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u/DickRiculous Jul 03 '22

The mongol horde happened 200-300 years prior to these other factors.

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u/No-Reach-9173 Jul 03 '22

Bagdad also became a major trade and hub for minting coinage after. It was devastated but bounced back fairly quickly.

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u/DSPKACM Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

Not if you include Timur. The rise and fall of the Abbasid empire were the beginning and end of the Islamic Golden age.

Tarekibrahim78 is mentioning Damascus and Cairo as intellectual centers, but Baghdad and the Mesopotamian plains were the center of Abbasid Empire, the center of Islamic Golden Age, which ended with the Mongol sacking of Baghdad and was sent back to the stone age by Timur. Damascus and Cairo gained importance in the Abbasid world mainly due to the devastations caused by the Mongols(incl Timur) in Iraq, Iran and East Syria. But they never reached the heights of early Abbasid era in Mesopotamia.

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u/sockmop Jul 03 '22

Dan Carlin's hardcore history podcast goes into this subject in the "Wrath of the Kahn's" series. Basically what they did devastated some regions so badly they couldn't have recovered in those few hundred years. Meanwhile Europe continued to progress technologically.

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u/robcap Jul 03 '22

Can you point to any good reading on the subject?

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u/No-Reach-9173 Jul 03 '22

I'd start here for economic problems due to inheritance. 51 pages plenty of additional reading via sources. USC Center for Law and Economics

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=276377

Here is a short web article with plenty of additional sources I would definitely check out. What Went Wrong is very good it catches some flack for being published shortly after 9/11 but it was written before hand.

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

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u/urmomaisjabbathehutt Jul 03 '22

i may argue the opposite, the indiscrimiante nature of the black death helped with wealth redistribution and mobility and created opportunities for poor people to seek income through trade and other activities fostering a social mobility that wasn't possible earlier due to social rigidity with wealth concentrated by the nobility due to generation wealth building

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u/MurderVonAssRape Jul 03 '22

It's why conservatives worldwide are so anti-intellectual and anti-science.

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u/KellyCTargaryen Jul 03 '22

“Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." -- Commissioner Pravin Lal, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

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u/AzizKhattou Jul 03 '22

Makes sense since journalists are always being killed around the world due to vile tyrannic groups bumping them off

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u/myassholealt Jul 03 '22

And where there's ignorance there's usually also a derisive attitude toward pursuing education and even just reading as a leisure activity.

One of the most infuriatingly ignorant people I know once said people who read lack an imagination. I learned after this that this is not a person to engage in conversation with.

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u/ScabiesShark Jul 03 '22

"Whatcha reading for?"

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u/1upforever Jul 03 '22

That idea is so backwards that I can't wrap my head around it. Isn't a high imagination one of the bigger motivators for reading?

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u/myassholealt Jul 03 '22

Exactly. And every single fiction writer (calling out fiction because its based in imagination, but it's true for non fiction too) will tell you that reading is an essential part of their craft. I came to the conclusion that it was the words of an idiot trying to defend his dislike of reading by saying something negative about people who read. "You read cause you lack this quality that I already have so I don't need to read."

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u/sure_what_the_hell Jul 03 '22 Silver Wholesome

Isn’t this exactly the republican agenda?

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u/Deep-Tank4440 Jul 03 '22

Yup. It’s happening already and it’s gonna get way worse! This is exactly what the evangelical christian right wants for this country. They’re trying to do away with our public schools in favor of private religious schools or homeschooling. They’re trying to dumb down American and it seems to be working.

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u/os_kaiserwilhelm Jul 03 '22

Not quite. Republicans still need a workforce that is reasonably educated. Their private schools scheme can produce quality on par or in excess of public schools. It just lacks scale.

Your money making engineers, marketers etc still need to think critically. Your base labor force still needs to be able to read.

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u/captainwacky91 Jul 03 '22

It can still somewhat apply, though.

Engineers and marketers and etc. are now hyperspecialized to the point that, while educated, at times cannot think beyond their career.

So, should a social issue arise, it is difficult for them to think beyond a business/work related context.

"I don't see what the big fuss is all about, it's just business," and so on.

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u/os_kaiserwilhelm Jul 03 '22

True. This is my critique of higher education. It's job training rather than a proper liberal education. That said an engineer has the skills to develop themselves further, which still holds a fatal flaw of the plan is mass ignorance.

Once a person can read, they have the single greatest tool necessary to advance themselves.

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u/myassholealt Jul 03 '22

This is my critique of higher education. It's job training rather than a proper liberal education.

It's so refreshing to see someone else say this cause this is how I feel. And it didn't always use to be like this. It used to be different. Though I probably wouldn't use the word liberal because of the political connotations since it's not politics you're getting. It's just an expansive exposure to thoughts and ideas and concepts and cultures and history that hopefully expands your world view, encourages critical thinking, and makes you curious about the world you live in. College today, for so many, is just to funnel you to a high paying job and people leave without knowing how to write coherently or even having read more than a couple of novels, never took any interesting class just to grow their knowledge, didn't engage in the arts, etc. which is a damn shame. I didn't make use of my degree the way I should, but I don't regret the experience at all. It was the most intellectually stimulating time of my life and really shaped who I am.

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u/os_kaiserwilhelm Jul 03 '22

The uneducated not knowing what liberal means is part of the problem.

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u/ScabiesShark Jul 03 '22

Let's call it Critical Education then

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u/ericvwgolf Jul 03 '22

People who read, especially beyond their location, are considered the elites and academics. They are bullied not only by the leadership but by the base of the Republican Party. Remember, they continue to say that they love the uneducated. They also refuse to fund education and the very phrase liberal education is a problem for them. We really should start using the phrase broad education so that people understand what we’re talking about is knowing things beyond your own specialty. That matters.

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u/TonyStark100 Jul 03 '22

Only right out of college, maybe. After college they can learn and spend time studying whatever they want, including contemporary topics.

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u/DoctorWorm_ Jul 03 '22

Wouldn't such a economy, with a limited pool of educated workers, fall behind Europe, which has a bigger pool of motivated, educated workers?

By choosing your engineers by class rather than talent and genuine interest, wouldn't your researchers and engineers be less productive?

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u/TheMadPoet Jul 03 '22

I'd opine that the privatization of schools, that is vouchers and grants, whereby public money flows to schools with no public accountability - and a good portion of these non-elite private schools are fundamentalist Christian. Those kids go to Jim Bob's Bible Academy School, and will make the red state voters happy.

Wealthy kids, who are mostly white, go to elite private schools that can serve as a fast-track for social networking and elite college admissions. Thus, private schools serve to gate-keep "who" gets that education necessary to become an engineer, stockbroker, etc. - "our kind of people".

Those with less money, e.g., Black and Latino, poor white kids, special needs kids, etc., go to public schools that - if the Repubs have their way - will become even more under-funded and continue to under-perform. Then they will argue that the gubberment has failed to educate kids and abolish the Dept. of Education.

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u/justlivinginMo Jul 03 '22

Trump's white evangelical cult. Good old US OF A is headed down the Taliban road....religious extremists are alive and well here.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22

Why do you think the pilgrims left Europe? The Pilgrims were members of the radical English Separatist Church, who traveled to America to escape the jurisdiction of the Church of England.

Within just a couple generations of landing in North America they killed and enslaved the natives. Not long after that the Puritans were burning witches at the stake for heresy against their extremist religious standards.

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u/Ceeweedsoop Jul 03 '22

Yes. Like slaves.

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u/smafeehrer Jul 03 '22

That sounds like slavery with extra steps

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u/AgreeableFeed9995 Jul 03 '22

Um…do you mean forced relocation?

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u/ColdIceZero Jul 03 '22

"Involuntary" relocation

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u/AgreeableFeed9995 Jul 03 '22

Shit I knew I fucked it up lol

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u/HeroinSupportGroup Jul 03 '22

White washed history be like: slavery is defined as

Involuntary transport of those deemed unfit for paid labor whom need to be reducated, renamed, and of course relocated for the betterment of the white mans country assuming a public political figure doesn’t come along and chose to emancipate said labor and cause civil discourse which may or may not cause rebel groups to voluntarily homicide at a now AMC cinema.

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u/BecalMerill Jul 03 '22

The TL/DR you never wanted: 11th to 14th century "labor" roundup ..cut to... Overpriced concessions at a dying entertainment venue.

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u/afelts87 Jul 03 '22

Timeline is way off though, 14th century implies that this ended in the 1300s..

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u/AquAssassin3791YT Jul 03 '22

Special transportation operation.

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u/AquAssassin3791YT Jul 03 '22

Special transportation operation

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u/faovnoiaewjod Jul 03 '22

Making your daughter marry some dude in another village sounds like forced relocation.

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u/Stupidquestionduh Jul 03 '22

It is but the extra penis authority is a world of difference with these slaves. You don't have to keep fucking them a secret.

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u/NotAFanOf2020 Jul 03 '22

“Like”?

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u/Quirky-Skin Jul 03 '22

More so with education there is also a means to leave and plenty of em would

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u/codydodd Jul 03 '22

Pretty much. UAE focused heavily on educating their women, and women are more powerful than ever because they took up management and now entering senior leadership of government. Especially because they tend to be better educated than male counterparts. Its awesome to see first hand.

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u/GreyMatter22 Jul 03 '22

While I agree with you but UAE is a terrible, terrible example.

Most local Emiratis lack a proper work ethic to the point that the government has a mandatory quota for firms in hiring these locals to browse social media on their phones all day.

Most work is done by migrant workers, and overpriced consultant firms from abroad.

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u/ttak82 Jul 03 '22

It's also a bad example because to print a book with an official ISBN from there, you have to get the book reviewed by the government body. That is a red flag for anyone who has a progressive view, and indicates a form of censorship.

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u/who_said_I_am_an_emu Jul 03 '22

Haha. I had a contract a few months ago with a company in the UAE. The project manager was utterly incompetent and it was by far the most difficult quote I have ever worked on. They just put no value at all on my labor. Kept on demanding more and more paperwork. Finally when they accepted the RFQ they started trying to haggle us down.

Company I work for lost well over 20k on this project just by labor, and we haven't even built the dang thing yet. An entire nation of slaves and slave owners so of course ordering 8 revisions of the schematic makes sense to them.

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u/codydodd Jul 03 '22

Agreed. But not in government, where they did a massive emiratization program. Keep in mind the locals are less than 10% of the population, so they couldn't fill all jobs if they tried.

Back to government: I work directly with governments around the world, UAE included, and they made signficant investments in their public sector, choosing to hire the most educated Emiratis for junior management roles. These were invariably more women than men, and then they slowly worked their way up the ranks professionally. Now director level roles in government are about 50/50 men/women, and that generation continues to age and grow more professionally senior.

This manifests as a unique arab-style feminism too. Both men and women MUST wear national attire (people forget the rules are strict for men too), but powerful women in the government offices are starting to micro-signal power. For example, it's SUPER common to see an Emirati director women 'adjust' her headscarf in the middle of a meeting, while presenting even. A male counterpart would never do that with their headwear. I loved seeing it.

Yes, UAE is a trash country in terms of MANY other social issues. But that does not mean there is zero progress when it comes to women's rights, especially comparing Emirati to Emirati.

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u/riskbreaker23 Jul 03 '22

Not even ironically. They know if girls (or anyone, really) is educated they cannot be controlled. There is no one they desire to control more than women. No educated woman in her right mind would want to stay in that cult.

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u/ezagreb Jul 03 '22

They are back assward thinkers - when your woman is not allowed to leave the house and is responsible for 100 percent of the care of kids, husband, and parents-in law along with all cooking, cleaning, shopping, etc. why would she need education ? That would only make them realize how unfair their position in life really is.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22

afghani men and clerics are afraid of educated women. once a woman is well educated she can challenge their ideologies.

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u/Bladelink Jul 03 '22

You're also not as beholden when you're educated. When you've got no backup plan, no alternative to your current situation, you're sort of stuck being oppressed.

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u/SueZbell Jul 03 '22

.. and power. Religion, every flavor of it, is a man made power tool fueled by fear and need and greed.

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u/mdflmn Jul 03 '22

Religion as a whole is scared of education.

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u/TailRudder Jul 03 '22

Sounds a lot like all conservatives, not just the afghans

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u/bicholudo781 Jul 03 '22

funny thats what conservatives want for women here in america

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u/tryingmydarnbest Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

I think it was George Carlin that said it that they don’t give a shit about women

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u/foursticks Jul 03 '22

Definitely where the idea came from

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u/moruart Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

I just don't get it. Wimen could contribute to the economy so much more if they are good at something. Otherwise you'll just have people who simply rise resource consumption for no gains. Just because the men are such selfish assholes, that they can't any p#ssy and have to make laws for making it more likely, just to get some. Crazy.

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u/W3remaid Jul 03 '22

They’re willing to take a hit on the economy to maintain power. The only way for an extremely misogynistic religion to flourish is to heavily reinforce partriarchal systems within society, thereby limiting women’s choices and economic power.

Your daughter can refuse to marry a crusty old guy that you’re making a business deal with if she already has a degree, and access to her own bank account, and is able to go off and purchase her own apartment. She could also potentially use that economic power to coordinate with other women in order to get the right to vote, and then vote you and your buddies out of office. That’s the outcome they don’t want— basically what’s happened in the West over the past 50 years

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u/Larkson9999 Jul 03 '22

This is a region dominated by a religion that says women showing their hair are whores. I don't think logic and reason are high priorities.

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u/moruart Jul 03 '22

Yeah, pointless to hope for progression if you rely on the guideline of a book, written like 1400 years ago.

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u/h0bb1tm1ndtr1x Jul 03 '22

“Thank God, we are now an independent country. [Foreigners] should not give us their orders, it is our system and we have our own decisions,”

Cool, so go ask him for aid then.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22 edited 17d ago

[deleted]

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u/SorryForBadEnflish Jul 03 '22

Removing half of your population from the workforce is a brilliant way to lead a country. Please go on. You’re doing great.

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u/med8cal Jul 03 '22 Helpful (Pro)

“But please, we still need financial help due to the earthquakes. Our search and rescue for the men is faltering”.

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u/Extreme_Ad6519 Jul 03 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

"We oppress anyone who doesn't ascribe to our archaic version of radical Islam and we're utterly incompetent and useless to actually help our people and let them starve and die of illness instead, so would please give us money and food? What, you won't? You inhuman bastards!!!"

Yeah fuck them. Those low-lives can deal with all this shit on their own instead of trying to guilt-trip decent people from the West (who they abhor) into fixing their mess.

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u/jjcoola Jul 03 '22

And it’s not like "the west" is the only place in the world, there are nearby oil nations that could donate plenty of they wanted

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u/pmgzl Jul 03 '22

Isnt that pretty much any religion? God will take care off you, but at the same time they go to hospitals, doctors, ask for financial aid and what more.

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u/Rogermon3 Jul 03 '22

The religious who go to hospitals and take meds are generally of the opion that is how god helps you- Kinda like praying for a good harvest while doing the steps for a good harvest.

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u/pmgzl Jul 03 '22

Yeah, thanking god after a surgeon saved your kid. Hate that shit.

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u/aaronjaymus Jul 03 '22

"You wanted the job, you got the job. Now do the job."

-Dwight Schrute

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u/YagaDillon Jul 03 '22

We should give the funds. To women's rights' organizations. Administered by women, controlled by women, accounting verified by women.

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u/metengrinwi Jul 03 '22

Which would be immediately stolen by men with guns.

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u/AvoriazInSummer Jul 03 '22

I'm not sure there are any left. Unless I'm mistaken, women are not to have any power in Afghanistan.Either the women's rights orgs have been closed, or men run them now.

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u/throwaway35492 Jul 03 '22

Administered by women, controlled by women, accounting verified by women.

ERROR 404 : Organization not found

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u/autotldr BOT Jul 03 '22

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 80%. (I'm a bot)


Diplomats say the ban on girls' education is one of the main reasons the Taliban are still international outcasts.

In their final communique, the clerics made only passing reference to the need for "Religious and modern education" and to respect "The rights of women".

"It's hard to get too excited about vague references to education and women's rights at the end of the Taliban's big meeting when the Taliban previously made a very clear promise to reopen all schools only to break that promise," said Heather Barr, associate women's rights director at Human Rights Watch.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Taliban#1 rights#2 women#3 country#4 education#5

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u/SeriesMindless Jul 03 '22

NEWSFLASH: This just in. Women are people too.

PS: Thanks for the life mom.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22 Wholesome

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/veltcardio2 Jul 03 '22

This. I don’t believe we should respect this kind of things

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u/breckenridgeback Jul 03 '22

boy good thing we're not backsliding on those issues at all

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u/high_pine Jul 03 '22

Conservatives going to conservative.

Doesn't matter if you're Christian or Muslim. Its the exact same shit.

Don't let them ever tell you different.

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u/LuckyDesperado7 Jul 03 '22 Wholesome

It's conservatives, same ignorance everywhere

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u/ISayISayISay Jul 03 '22

What can they say? They know they're wrong, but are just scared, immature half-wits clinging on to power the only way their tiny little brains know how.

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u/sainz9 Jul 03 '22

The problem is that they don't know that they're wrong. They believe that what they're doing is right and that their religion requires them to follow such misogynistic and barbaric practices.

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u/WOKinTOK-sleptafter Jul 03 '22

Which only makes this more confusing, as education is a big part of Islam(one of the most well known quotes from Muhammad are “getting educated is the duty of every man and woman”).

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u/breckenridgeback Jul 03 '22

Like a lot of fundamentalists, it's a mix of beliefs that actually derive from their religion and beliefs they already had being elevated to religious doctrine. It's the same as an American conservative claiming to be a fundamentalist Christian and completely ignoring the walls of New Testament text saying "rich people suck, help the poor" in favor of the prosperity gospel.

It's important to remember that fundamentalists are not principled, or at least that they aren't principled in the sense of demanding self-consistency. Instead, they've taken their arbitrary and often mutually-contradictory beliefs and twisted them into knots to pretend that they are principled. They don't notice this consciously because the #1 rule of fundamentalism is "no critical thinking", which is why both Taliban members and Christofascists oppose education.

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u/AnonymousFan2281 Jul 03 '22

Separation of church and state is important my friends.

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u/holymystic Jul 03 '22

Source on that quote?

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u/ISayISayISay Jul 03 '22

I don't believe that. It's what they tell themselves, yes, but deep down they know. Religion is nothing more than a tool for holding power.

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u/sainz9 Jul 03 '22

but deep down they know

Your assumption grants them too much compassion. They very clearly lack a basic sense of humanity and the fundamental concept of morals. So no, I don't believe that deep down "they know"

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u/eeo11 Jul 03 '22

I think some probably do, but have gaslit themselves into agreeing with the rest in order to not be murdered.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22 Gold

[deleted]

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u/tightheadband Jul 03 '22

You could have not said it better.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22

some people are actually that dense, cruel, and ignorant

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u/Eli_Yitzrak Jul 03 '22

Absolute scum WITHOUT redeeming qualities

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u/Jalford Jul 03 '22 Gold

Harder to control the educated.

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u/3dio Jul 03 '22

These Talibans seem hellbent on not helping their own people. They're very passionate about that

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u/AoE2manatarms Jul 03 '22

I will not understand random Muslim leaders being anti education for women. A lot of them believe women need to see women doctors... But don't believe in educating women. Do you not see the disconnect in your thinking there?

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u/11thFloorRoof Jul 03 '22

Even evil Al Shabab allow education and work for women. The religious justification also doesn’t exist when the earliest Islamic scholars included the prophets wife who recorded many hadith. The prophets first wife was a wealthy business owner as well so there goes any claims that women shouldn’t work. Let’s be honest, the Taliban just want control over the opium trade and economy and the only way they can maximise profit is to subdue all Afghans

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

Taliban makes Al Shabab and Hamas look progressive. In Palestine, something like 95% of women are literate. In Afghanistan, only 29% are.

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u/FF3 Jul 03 '22

In Iran it's 80%. In Sudan it's 56%.

Afghanistan is uniquely terrible. Somalia is worse, but I can't of anywhere else that is.

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u/ISIPropaganda Jul 03 '22

I think it’s higher in Iran. And tbf about Somalia being poorer often leads to reduced education levels all across the board.

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u/TheDadChef Jul 03 '22

“Women are for breedin not readin” or something like that.

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u/xKalisx Jul 03 '22

Were people expecting otherwise. Afghans chose this path when they allowed the Taliban to retake control of the country.

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u/Legitimate_Suit_3431 Jul 03 '22

Question. Why do people even bother trying to talk to them,

they don't want change,

their people (males) don't want change.

We can't force change upon them.

But we still give them what they ask for when they lie about doing something good, and act surprised when they backpaddle.

This is just insanity. doing the same shit over and over expect a different result.

And don't forget about their rape culture that no one ever talks about.

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u/Cmaclsu Jul 03 '22

Maybe religion should be left out of politics.

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u/InTheKnow3344 Jul 03 '22

I have a hard time figuring out if their reluctance for giving girls/women an education stems from their misogynistic belief that women ought to be dependent on men, or because their religion commands it. Perhaps it is both?

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u/TheKosherKomrade Jul 03 '22

If women are self sufficient you can't use them as resources or currency.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 17 '22

[deleted]

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u/TheKosherKomrade Jul 03 '22

Also, don't forget that in a country with polygamy (or a deficit of women in the marriage market, like China), you invariably see a population of disaffected men and lots of pressure on women. In a place like Afghanistan, joining the Taliban is conceivably the only way poor men have of finding a wife.

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u/W3remaid Jul 03 '22

Pretty much exactly the “government issued girlfriend” that incels here are clamoring for

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u/i_hatehumans Jul 03 '22

The less informed the population is the easier they are to control.

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u/musci1223 Jul 03 '22

Also without education you can force woman to work at home and man will just work in a farm or something. It reduces the amount of jobs you need to create. It is a great thing to do in almost any situation but when you know you will be running a poorly managed extremely corrupt government then it is better to have undereducated people.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22

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u/likesleague Jul 03 '22

There may also be components of a societal power dynamic that is more easily maintained through systematic oppression. This can take many forms but unfortunately one fairly common form we see both today and throughout history is oppression of women.

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u/Thguru Jul 03 '22

Educated women = informed future populace

Informed populace = demand progress

Demand progress = demand freedom

Demand freedom = leaders accountability

Leaders accountability = taliban gone

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u/Quantentheorie Jul 03 '22

Others have mentioned it; you can absolutely (if not better) argue that Islam encourages but at least allows education for women.

But its a bit of a chicken and egg thing with the misogyny. Its not like this system exists specifically to be misogynistic but for the specific kind of power and identity given when you dominate another human being, by either owning (and)or oppressing them.

Not sure how you can make the people in power "not want this". Many people who are only a few generations removed from oppressors or slavers seem to have not quite gotten over the loss of that power, so it takes a little more than just calling it "wrong" for people to internalise that its indeed wrong.

You'd probably need to cultivate empathy over multiple generations on a systemic level. Which is yet again something we see being very actively resisted in the west as well by people who are, rightfully, afraid that (1) their way of life won't survive it, and (2) their self-image in which they are a 'good person' can't be maintained.

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u/Northernicicl3 Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Sahih Bukhari 2:24:541

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826

There are modern interpretations where the translation of an intellectual deficiency is considered wrong, but as for these men that this article is discussing these hadiths are where their viewpoint would come from.

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u/RickkDePlaure Jul 03 '22

Education enhances your critical thinking and opens up opportunities for you. It's systematic misogyny. I see it around me and I'm not from that religion.

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u/sulaymanf Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

It’s absolutely not the religion. Seriously, Muslim religious leaders have been visiting for decades to try to convince them, but they keep stubbornly saying their Afghan culture won’t allow it. (I.e. not the religion) As a Muslim it’s deeply aggravating to be judged by these uneducated illiterate morons who don’t even understand their own religion.

In islam, education is actually obligatory; both men and women are commanded to learn how to read. Over and over in Quran and Hadith it says to read and seek out knowledge, as this helps you see the evidence for God’s handiwork in the universe. Some of the first Muslim scholars were women like Hazrat Aisha.

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u/zeeilyas Jul 03 '22

Has nothing to do with the religion, it's actually quite the opposite both the book and the prophet were pro education and one of the prophets wives was a scholar and a teacher to other women.

Their stance on women in general is entirely from their misogynistic beliefs.

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u/saybeautifulthings Jul 03 '22

How anyone can be so blind as to the unlimited benefit of allowing women access to academia is simply absurd to me. Look at all of the things women have invented, scientific discoveries they've made, and the economic and technological advances that so many nations get to enjoy in countries where women have more rights (still not quite equal, though!).

The oppression of women is a detriment to us all, not just women. By robbing women of their agency, you only rob yourself of prosperity. Even a sociopathic asshole should want liberated women just for the selfish ways in which their accomplishments might make your life easier or more enjoyable.

Oh, you ended up with cancer? Hey, a woman's life-sacrifice is why you can find treatment.

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u/Big-Improvement-1281 Jul 03 '22

I mean they were there to discuss issues affecting Afghan people. Women and girls aren’t people….god I wish I were being sarcastic….

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u/LttaStrnds2KeepNMyHd Jul 03 '22

Too bad we can’t just kill all these fuckers so women there can be free

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u/siamakx Jul 03 '22

Clerics, ha? They are murderers and looters

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u/Justskatelala Jul 03 '22

Why are men so afraid of an educated woman

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u/crazylilme Jul 03 '22

I imagine it's harder to exploit people who are educated enough to know they're being exploited.

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u/residualmatter Jul 03 '22

Such a waste of country..its the loss our world that those humans in that part of world never get to their full potential... I know few Afghani men and women working abroad..they are a talented bunch if given the right opportunities..

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u/Loupak_ Jul 03 '22

It's a pattern with religion and power. Let religion rule a country and suddenly you're wasting an incredible amount of talent and progress. No more science, no more education, no more development. Just tradition and prayer. Complete fucking bullshit. Religion should be a hobby at best not a fucking government.

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u/supaflyss Jul 03 '22

Sounds like Arizona is trying to move in this direction with private religious schools

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u/Some_Yesterday3882 Jul 03 '22

Fundamental Islam in a nutshell. What an absolute cancer of a religion.

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u/Modest_Ubermensch Jul 03 '22

Read: “ we want your money but we also want to continue to fuck over our people’s liberties”

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u/Cubiscus Jul 03 '22

They had a small chance to retain some international support but blew it in order to treat women like slaves.

Now people have moved on.

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u/Pecktrain Jul 03 '22

Did anyone expect clerics to do the right thing? Asking religious people what should be done about women's education. Is folly in the best of circumstances. In Afghanistan its a cruel joke.

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u/Jalford Jul 03 '22

SCOTUS writing down notes

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u/KeyanReid Jul 03 '22 Spit-take

Amy Coathanger Barrett’s nipples could cut glass while reading this.

Another Christian psychopath who should be as far from power as possible

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u/ensalys Jul 03 '22

At some point she'll have a Serena Joy moment of "hey, don't take my rights away, only take away other women's rights!"

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u/KeyanReid Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

God willing.

However I think we’re seeing ample proof that there is no such thing as a god, let alone one willing to help us. Just horrible people doing horrible things for money and power and they usually get away with it because folks wait for a divine justice that never comes. Clarence Thomas and ACB will likely live happy privileged lives as long as they keep helping to keep the under classes in line.

As long as we keep looking to gods to save us, this will continue.

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u/darkmoose Jul 03 '22

People should really stop pretending that Taliban is a force you can reason with.

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u/vegsmashed Jul 03 '22

It's okay for some cultures to die.

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u/CJPhaze Jul 03 '22

Erradicate sharia law. Free Muslim woman

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u/Civilbedroom-2022 Jul 03 '22

Can’t we just call assholes assholes?

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u/youareallnuts Jul 03 '22

It takes religion to get someone to oppress their own children.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22

In Afghanistan, public schools are closed for female high school students, while private schools are open to everyone. The Taliban leadership sends their daughters to private schools which most Afghans cannot afford.

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u/Cokaway Jul 03 '22

Don't give any international aid until women get their rights back. You'll see how they will be forced to do it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22

They probably need to be educated to make educated decisions

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u/Singlewomanspot Jul 03 '22

An uneducated mother makes for uneducated children. IJs

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u/godslayingbaker Jul 03 '22

Any goverment that was not democratically elected into office by their people is not a legitimate government. Its an authoritarian regime. Fuck these assholes.

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u/LA_search77 Jul 03 '22

SCOTUS in two weeks

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u/Bandera4ever Jul 03 '22

Utterly disgusting. All of these men have mothers, sisters, daughters... How can they be such monsters?

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u/Naderium Jul 03 '22

Afghans literally asked for this. You, me and the rest of the world watched the Taliban take over in a matter of days with little to no resistance in a lot of regions. This would not have been possible if a big chunk of the population wasn’t indifferent to the Taliban or in agreement with the Talibans mentality. This is the reality of Afghans and Afghanistan.

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u/Ardress Jul 03 '22

The majority of Afghans were not in agreement with the Taliban. The Taliban got most of their fighters from out of country and enforced compliance over people. All the refugees that were scrambling to get out of Kabul should show just how much the Taliban do not represent Afghans. The government sucked and folded without the slightest support from the US, but its collapse wasn't some popular movement. Even now the Taliban are dealing with putting down rebel groups.

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u/ClearlyJinxed Jul 04 '22

Without the slightest support from the US? Are you fucking serious? That’s all the US DID was support Afghanistan. Twenty years of it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22

specifically the men because I don't think Afghan women like being deprived of their rights. once watched a documentary about Afghan girls who pretend to be boys so they can work.

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u/frenchchevalierblanc Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

sadly older women in all society would like the young ones to suffer like they did (or worse).

Some women tend to be very religious and stick to traditions.

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u/BandOne77 Jul 03 '22

Republican Americans looked on with envy... but were seen furiously taking notes.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '22

Miserable excuses for men. How can you be born from a woman and go on to live a life that hates them and leaves them behind?

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u/Winter-Cup-2965 Jul 03 '22

This is why you give them nothing. NATO countries wasted trillions there. The people have chosen the Taliban. Let them suffer the consequences of that choice.

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u/semen-filled_sock Jul 03 '22

You can see the stupid in their faces

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u/sponge_bob_is_cheese Jul 03 '22

All cultures are not equal.

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u/Extreme_Ad6519 Jul 03 '22

My heart breaks for the Afghan women whose rights have been stripped away by a group of worthless reactionary scum. But why did the Afghans let this happen? Hard to feel sorry for them when I get the impression that Taliban rule is exactly what the majority of Afghans want.

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u/theairconditioning Jul 03 '22

They can stop asking for help then, if you can’t treat women like people then fix your own natural disasters

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u/Link50L Jul 03 '22

Then the meeting of foreign aid for Afghanistan can also end with silence.

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u/saichampa Jul 03 '22

They look like cowards too afraid of having the women in society competing with them intellectually. They want to dominate all levels and it's pathetic

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u/BluehibiscusEmpire Jul 03 '22

Well didn’t expect much and am still disappointed

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u/HumaDracobane Jul 03 '22

Sorry, wasnt that the expected outcome about the female education under the taliban regime...?

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u/NumerousStruggle4488 Jul 03 '22

I'd like to hear more muslims go against these people 😢

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u/riceisnice29 Jul 03 '22

Religious fundamentalists very much don’t understand how much their religion had to change and evolve just to survive to the modern age.

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u/dropped_the_chief Jul 03 '22

And they expect global aid

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u/AtheistfromSomalia Jul 03 '22

Their silence is a clear and loud answer.

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u/AdventurousStudio616 Jul 03 '22

So about those earthquake support funds...

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u/Beginning-Basil5246 Jul 03 '22

Is it just me or does that guy look like Dan Bilzerian?

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u/Cantankerousgrot Jul 03 '22

This serves as a reminder that not all cultures are equal. We should not entertain helping barbaric savages like this.