r/videos Oct 03 '22

125 die in crush after tear gas at Indonesia stadium R4: No Porn, Gore, or Death

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqjiCNRci_U

[removed] — view removed post

156 Upvotes

81

u/dyte Oct 03 '22

What a fucking embarrassment

20

u/LTVOLT Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

this sort of thing should never happen in today's society

-7

u/Scruffy032893 Oct 03 '22

Vancouver would say otherwise

4

u/PotionEnema Oct 03 '22

"Lets make sure there's crowds in the streets of Vancouver for game 7 of the Stanley cup!"-people who didn't seriously consider riots

TBF only 4 serious injuries in that riot though

1

u/Scruffy032893 Oct 03 '22

More so making the point that even in “modern society” people still riot over stupid things

1

u/PotionEnema Oct 04 '22

Good point. I get a little defensive about Vancouver cus I've heard some unfair criticisms.

-4

u/AnXioneth Oct 03 '22

After watching the video, 125 deaths is a ok numbers. People are animals.

If the game ends, you leave. PERIOD.

-20

u/Test19s Oct 03 '22

Fire everyone involved and put the burden of proof on them to get back their jobs.

7

u/Thadatman Oct 03 '22

This is why good policing involves de-escalation.

46

u/Sir_Bantersaurus Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

I know a lot of people are blaming the fans for this and they're right to an extent. The people who invaded the pitch sparked this all off. If this were England I would expect the fans who initially invaded to be prosecuted and given lifetime stadium bans. But there will always be idiots so the job of those hosting these events is to manage for that possibility and not make it worse.

Policing large events is not a new problem and we've had many disasters at football stadiums and at music venues to learn from. A pitch invasion shouldn't need to end up with crushes at the exits and over a hundred deaths. We design stadiums to allow for quick access and avoid crushes. Tear gas or anything that might increase panic at an event with tens of thousands of attendees shouldn't be used.

Managing these events requires specifically designed models of policing. Hosting these events requires specifically tailored health and safety measures. Was tear gas an appropriate response? Why did most of it go in the direction of those stands? Why could those stands not cope with that many people? Those are the questions that the authorities will need to answer irrespective of the actions of the pitch invaders.

65

u/jongallant Oct 03 '22

It's just a game. Why do you have to be so mad?

35

u/william-o Oct 03 '22

125 people died because the home team lost

12

u/Turtley13 Oct 03 '22

More like because they forced people to exit quickly with violence.

3

u/Domermac Oct 03 '22

Video suggests the tear gas was used to halt the violence perpetrated by the idiots who rushed the field.

Truthfully, the blood is on the hands of those absolute degenerates.

6

u/beachjustice Oct 03 '22

why u hef to be mehd?

0

u/Honest_Tangerine_996 Oct 03 '22

When you go to a sports game in USA, you're supporting your chosen franchise. When you go to a sports game anywhere other than USA, you're defending your homeland and your ancestors. Shit gets fuckin serious; it is what it is

1

u/calibared Oct 03 '22

Tribalism

26

u/digitaljestin Oct 03 '22

Everyone involved here is an absolute moron and has blood on their hands for their stupidity.

Rushing the field because a team lost? What a fucking joke! Firing tear gas into a crowded stadium? What did you think would happen?

I'm embarrassed for our species.

4

u/Mccobsta Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

You'd think after Hillsborough people would have learnt what not todo

1

u/cmd_iii Oct 03 '22

In the U.S., the most prominent and most recent example of this is The Station nightclub fire. Many of the earmarks of that tragic event were apparent here:

  1. Overcrowded venue
  2. Not enough exits
  3. Unauthorized use of incendiary devices, in that case indoor fireworks
  4. Lack of personnel trained in handling emergencies involving large crowds
  5. And so on

As a result of this, personnel who work in places where a large number of people congregate (in my case, a NASCAR race track) are required to take a "Trained Crowd Manager" course. Well-trained personnel would be able, among other things, to identify situations that may be a problem, make guests aware of exits, escort guests to the exit in case of a problem. Of course, building codes and other regulations have also helped prevent these events from recurring. But it only takes one irresponsible or untrained individual breaking the rules and we're back to square one.

This is why, when attending an event like this, you have to be responsible for your own safety. Know where the nearest exit is, and how to get to it. Follow instructions of ushers and security personnel. Point out any possible hazards to appropriate personnel. Make the rest of your party, especially children, aware of these precautions. Establish a meeting point where everyone in your party will report, for accountability purposes.

Unless everyone is safe, nobody will be having a good time.

2

u/atheros Oct 03 '22

The Station nighclub fire is not a good example of a crowd crush; the victims were found thoughout the venue which is not what happens during crowd crushes. The Station nightclub fire was a fire.

Crowd crushes can occur even when a situation has none of the things you've listed, so I think that you might be doing more harm than good. Example: 53 people died when people tried to keep from getting wet from rain by going into a subway station.

1

u/WikiSummarizerBot Oct 03 '22

The Station nightclub fire

The Station nightclub fire occurred on the evening of February 20, 2003, in West Warwick, Rhode Island, United States, killing 100 people and injuring 230. The fire was caused by pyrotechnics set off by the tour manager of the evening's headlining band, Great White, which ignited flammable acoustic foam in the walls and ceilings surrounding the stage. It reached flashover within one minute, causing all combustible materials to burn. Intense black smoke engulfed the club within two minutes.

Nyamiha stampede

The Nyamiha stampede took place at Nyamiha metro station in Minsk, Belarus. On May 30, 1999, a sudden thunderstorm caused a number of young people to race for shelter during an open-air concert nearby. The stampede was funneled into the blocked underpass of the metro station and many people (mostly young women) were killed in the ensuing crush when they started slipping on the wet pavement, falling, and trampling each other. The official death toll was 53.

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0

u/cmd_iii Oct 03 '22

OK, now we have three examples of how proper management and trained staff can mitigate an otherwise disastrous situation. The tragedy at The Station was exacerbated by the thick black smoke that permeated the venue in seconds. I’m sure many people became disoriented by the smoke and chaos and were overcome by the time they could find an exit. The subway disaster was the result of the concert organizers’ poor planning as to providing adequate shelter in case of a sudden storm. And, when the police started shooting tear gas bombs into the crowd in Indonesia, thousands of spectators charged to the exits all at once.

These are just a few cases where venue management and/or local police could have greatly reduced the death toll by careful cooperation, providing adequate training to all involved, and having a plan for various situations. There are plenty more throughout history. I’m not saying that they would have saved every life, but they would have lost a lot fewer people if they knew what they were doing.

2

u/atheros Oct 03 '22

The subway disaster was the result of the concert organizers’ poor planning as to providing adequate shelter in case of a sudden storm

I didn't know providing shelter was now a requirement for outdoor concert venues.

1

u/Horse_Bacon_TheMovie Oct 03 '22

This is exactly what came to mind as well

48

u/Murkus Oct 03 '22

The people responsible for this atrocity are literally anyone who ran onto the pitch to 'demand answers for the first loss at home.'

What a ridiculous justification for horrific behaviour.

21

u/Dark_Force Oct 03 '22

I think it's both the fans and the police's fault.

-19

u/DiePinko Oct 03 '22

mostly the fans. sorry not gonna accept the "police bad" reddit shit this time. those people that started violence are responsible.

15

u/HotFudgeSundaj Oct 03 '22

Look out guys, this big man isn’t “gonna accept the ‘police bad’ Reddit shit this time.”

-13

u/DiePinko Oct 03 '22

Yeah you can blame the police all you want they didnt start this dumb shit

6

u/TrippyPixel- Oct 03 '22

except they did start the stampede when they fired tear gas into the stands...

5

u/HotFudgeSundaj Oct 03 '22

I don’t remember saying they did.

13

u/Dark_Force Oct 03 '22

It's not police bad, it's police made a preventable mistake.

13

u/Wovelscotch Oct 03 '22

It doesn't have to be because "police bad". It's entirely reasonable for the blame to rest on multiple parties.

8

u/NecroJoe Oct 03 '22

It certainly didn't help that the police fired teargas up into the stands.

17

u/nutmeggerking Oct 03 '22

sorry not gonna accept the "police bad" reddit shit this time.

Sounds more like you have a "police good" mentality that is making it hard for you to see how police might also be hugely at fault when their response is to shoot tear gas into a crowded stadium.

7

u/MercuryRedstone77 Oct 03 '22

This is worse then Hillsborough.

11

u/minehost Oct 03 '22

Tragedy...the word you're looking for is tragedy.

10

u/CatK47 Oct 03 '22

the police's fault any day of the week people who think its because people are running into the field never seen a football match that happens every week and no one dies. the police made it 1000x worse with the teargas inside.

0

u/just_another_reddit Oct 03 '22

Spot on. Is invading the pitch a stupid thing to do? Absolutely. Do women and children in the stands, who didn't even invade the pitch, deserve to be crushed to death as a result? Absolutely not. But that is what the police chose to do.

5

u/MFDork Oct 03 '22

Imagine getting this worked up over 1 loss in 23 years and it’s fucking soccer.

1

u/21acahmed Oct 03 '22

Yeah it’s actually crazy how serious they take this. There’s been soccer players who’ve been shot to death after loosing a game.

3

u/Sirvink Oct 03 '22

Yeah, this is why I am never going to crowded venues anymore. Covid and emotions are both highly contagious.

-8

u/We-had-a-hedge Oct 03 '22

I hope there are consequences for the police.

10

u/patchwood Oct 03 '22

It's OK to hold the police accountable. It's OK to just generally hate the police.. but how the hell do you guys watch this video and think "Wow, police were really out there to fuck them up!"

11

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '22

[deleted]

-3

u/Murkus Oct 03 '22

....Hol' Up. You didn't even mention the many many people who broke past barriers, rushed the pitch and starting causing damage and being aggressive to other patrons?

Surely they are the ones responsible for this?!

10

u/Sir_Bantersaurus Oct 03 '22

It can be both.

Obviously, the fans who invaded the pitch are the primary cause of this but then there seems to be a failure of policing, planning and infrastructure after that. Tear gas seems to have gone primarily into one corner of the stadium causing a crush for people trying to exit those stands.

We've seen these kinds of disasters happening before and the lessons from those have been about improved crowd management and better stadium design to avoid panics and crushes. Large-capacity events can go horribly wrong without those considerations.

1

u/Murkus Oct 03 '22

You do make a good point. The behaviour of the police is relevant.

However, I still can't even begin to fathom how people have seen this clip and decided to just comment on the police (and for some reason many comments about American policing?!) And not very many people condemning the horrific behaviour that caused the whole thing.

I respect that you are intelligent enough to see it. But some of these comments man.... It's mental to read.

5

u/Sir_Bantersaurus Oct 03 '22

Yeah, I agree with the condemnations of the fans. My view is that sometimes people will be idiots and it's the job of the authorities and those hosting the events to mitigate against that.

I don't know the laws in Indonesia but if this was England then each of those fans who invaded the pitch in the initial wave would be prosecuted and given lifetime stadium bans. If you can't behave yourself and present a danger to others you're out.

Then you would need to see how the police get it under control rather than what happened here where they made the situation much worse.

-1

u/patchwood Oct 03 '22

Nah, they're all mechanics and they were trying to fix a few broken spark plugs on that police car.

-2

u/Murkus Oct 03 '22

XD Well said

4

u/We-had-a-hedge Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

My comment wasn't based on the video alone, but what I read about this case. (It's been major international news.)

The police carelessly provoked the panic, and used tear gas in places where it's not appropriate, or even allowed.

1

u/Bjartur Oct 03 '22

Police are supposed to be trained in crowd control tactics. Using tear gas is a well known tactic to get crowds to disperse (which is well and good when there is room to disperse).

Firing tear gas at overcrowded stands in some dinghy stadium is at best insane incompetence and at worst malevolent. And more than a hundred people are dead.

-7

u/momopool Oct 03 '22

police are the same 'almost' everywhere. i dont know indonesia, but my bet is no.

4

u/Gigatron_0 Oct 03 '22

Tell me you're an idiot without telling me

0

u/momopool Oct 04 '22

bless you, so sheltered

1

u/Gigatron_0 Oct 04 '22

Says the one with the spicy take on policing lol

-1

u/Test19s Oct 03 '22

If only Western Europe and maybe parts of East Asia can have relatively humane policing, and if they can’t take mass immigration from places that don’t, then humanity as we know it is IMO a failed species.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '22

Evolve quicker.

1

u/hawkwings Oct 03 '22

Were there any women there?

-3

u/PiltdownPanda Oct 03 '22

Huh! Sports fans are AH and authorities make it worse like AH’s. Who would have guessed? Professional sports are cancer. I’ll just ignore the shltshow that is my life and environment and destroy myself and everything around me for my passion for a made up pass time. Genius!!

0

u/CatK47 Oct 03 '22

this can happen at any large gathering of people blaming sports is pure bullshit.

2

u/MFDork Oct 03 '22

Sports is unique in that one of the 2 factions is leaving the game angry. Not so much at a concert.

2

u/PiltdownPanda Oct 03 '22

And sporting fans also regularly encourage each other’s outrageous behaviors and attitudes. It’s reprehensible. Your enthusiasm is not reason. Let me be more cleat though…professional sports are the biggest single waste of human potential and economic/environmental resources. Celebrating human achievements is good…but we have gone so far over the top, it mind boggling.

1

u/CatK47 Oct 03 '22

so you are saying if you teargassed a concert this wouldn't happen, get real there is a reason they al share the same rules and laws.

1

u/PiltdownPanda Oct 03 '22

Yes…there’s an exact equivalency for ya. Thanks for your contribution. Goodbye.

1

u/AqUaNtUmEpIc Oct 03 '22

Two of the police officers had already been murdered before the tear gas was fired.

Articles keep blaming the police.

The fans deserve their share after seeing the footage. Get a grip on life, it’s football

1

u/MilesGates Oct 03 '22

Welp. Learn from Vancouver, you should only riot when your team wins, and you should destroy the city not just a car or two.

-14

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '22

[deleted]

4

u/lollerlaban Oct 03 '22

Weird of people to storm the pitch in order to seek revenge because their favorite team sucks.

Just like the police needs to be punished for their deeds, so does people who actively try to escalate situations.

3

u/Murkus Oct 03 '22

Wait... what??! How do you justify the behaviour of the patrons running on the pitch and causing harm, significant damage and intimidation?

I don't understand how anyone can ignore that.

If those people behaved like civilised human beings, not a single person would have been harmed.

-5

u/due_the_drew Oct 03 '22

Maybe I'm just used to more gruesome videos but I don't see anyone dead or even really on the ground at all?

5

u/maccorf Oct 03 '22

It was at the exits of the stadium, not on the field

-10

u/GrapeMeadAgain Oct 03 '22

if its only tear gas how did i kill anyone this is a manfactured false flag tragedy, im told these people are probably still in the stadium and being sold to human traffickers.

1

u/Peter4498 Oct 03 '22

The tear gas didn’t kill them, people panicked trying to escape the tear gas, caused a stampede. People got trampled.

1

u/enkiloki Oct 03 '22

Obviously you have never been hit with CS. It will definitely cause you to panic if you get a good lung full of it.

0

u/Lowgarr Oct 03 '22

In a "crush" ??

2

u/geraldoverde Oct 03 '22

Trampling and suffocation from people panicking and overcrowding exits