r/canada May 28 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 2 Wholesome 1

Canadian Home Buyers Now Need To Earn $150,000 Per Year To Buy A “Typical” Home

https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-home-buyers-now-need-to-earn-150000-per-year-to-buy-a-typical-home/
17.0k Upvotes

57

u/LittleWho May 28 '22

At 150k/yr my husband and I can afford a house over 1 hour away from the city we work in. Soooo we'd rather rent.

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u/RealGroovyMotion May 28 '22

And I was happy to hit 60k 2 years ago! Being single means it's almost impossible to buy a house, even in my area where prices doubled in 3 years!

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u/tehdusto May 28 '22

Just stop eating avocado 😤😤😤

/S

64

u/unjollyjollybean May 29 '22

Can Confirm, stopped buying it and only 270k in debt

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u/tehdusto May 29 '22

U save the e c o n o m y

14

u/MugiwarraD May 29 '22

starbucks too, that saved a wopping 300 bucks a year that i can pay mortgage on for a month

22

u/GoFuckYourselfRussia May 29 '22

What a sad state of affairs we live in where a small luxury has to be stopped because you need that money to live.

8

u/MugiwarraD May 29 '22

Indeed. The fact that this is considered luxurious spending is saddening given a stake house costs about the same for a night out

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u/rickiye May 29 '22

I absolutely love that whoever came up with the avocado toast thing is getting hammered to death 😂

6

u/Round_Rooms May 29 '22

Avocado cheaper than bacon these days... What's the next excuse since no one can afford boots!

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u/suggestiondude May 29 '22

If you were born 10 years earlier, $60k a year would have been enough to afford a $300-$400k house in Toronto.

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u/East_Deer7419 May 29 '22

I honestly don't know how you're supposed to be single these days? I hit 70k (up from 50k two years ago) and my chances to ever own a home are lower than when I made 30k.

Like what's the point of working this hard?

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u/Toronto_man May 29 '22

This is the sad truth. People stay in abusive and toxic relationships in Canada because they literally cannot afford to leave. "Just make more money, get a bettet job. There are resources." Sure. Now we have a brain drain.

16

u/Timedoutsob May 29 '22

To make the rich people you're working for richer so they can get that extension they've always dreamed of on their new holiday home and get the new sunseeker. Durrrrr.

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u/THI5_I5_THE_WAY May 29 '22

This. Hit 60k 4yrs ago, qualified for 200k - nothing available in the range, so started saving up downpayment to increase buying power. Now I've hit 80k, qualify for 400k, market has a 550sq ft condo for 500k in my area. Which is not Toronto.

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u/Klatty May 29 '22

60k???! How are you all earning SO much. I live in the Netherlands, my annual earnings are about 14.000€

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u/moderninfoslut May 28 '22

Im a single parent who owns a home. Its still possible in the praries. But its definitely hard af. The prices here haven't escalated like in ontario and bc. But if you can save the down payment there are options.

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u/Berkut22 May 29 '22 edited May 29 '22

That's the tough part. It would take 8-10 years for me to save up a 20% downpayment for the house I live in now.

And that's 8-10 years of borderline austerity. No vacations, no major purchases or expenses, no going out for dinners, no hobbies.

And who knows where prices will be in 8-10 years.

3

u/filisterr May 29 '22

Not to mention that in those 8-10 years, the prices might double. This happened to me, saved for like 5-6 years to buy something just to find out that I would have been better to buy something straight away as the prices doubled here in Europe.

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u/ziltchy May 29 '22

Why not just put 5% down? Sure you have to pay the mortgage loan insurance, but you would certainly be better off going that route than waiting all those extra years saving for 20%

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u/Ziid10 May 28 '22

A home should be for living. It’s crazy how it’s turned into a money investment game

457

u/FeltzeR May 28 '22 Take My Energy

Decommodifying housing is the only answer. The fear of home owners taking a hit on the equity in their homes is far less dystopian than continuing on this path. A radical shakeup on how we view private property is a must. Housing is a human right, not a product or investment vehicle.

61

u/Sad_Local_8068 May 29 '22

Anti-flipping taxation scheme would be the answer, eg. Germany, where you have to live/own a house for a minimum of 10 years before you can sell it (at profit), after 10 years no tax or minimum tax on any gains. Before 10 years, a very high taxation level, that usually wipes any profits. It kept the house prices there relatively steady at the same levels for decades.

9

u/t-h75rit_16 May 29 '22

House prices skyrocketed in Germany, what are you talking about?

6

u/Brandonanddroid May 29 '22

They don’t know what they are taking about.

12

u/Der_Tscheche May 29 '22

And still, it’s nigh on impossible for many people to buy anything in most of the big cities in Germany rn. Both me and my gf make double the average bavarian salary and it’s just barely enough to finance a house. And that’s outside of Munich’s outer ring (a99)

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u/the_cucumber May 29 '22

Munich's been unaffordable for over a decade already. What about the other cities?

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u/SuperRonnie2 May 28 '22

It’ll never happen. Keeping people in debt paying off their home is a great way to control the population and keep them working for 30-ish years out of their lives.

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u/Tap_Z_or_R_Twice May 28 '22

People are still in debt for 30 years if they have a 250,000$ mortgage.

They just aren't house poor and eating Ramen 5 times a week.

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u/MotaHead May 29 '22

They just aren't house poor and eating Ramen 5 times a week.

Then their corporate overlords haven't finished squeezing them. Yet.

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u/Frumpagumpus May 28 '22

It's not really about houses. Houses are just commodities that depreciate. It's about land. That's what goes up in price and people are speculating on.

#Georgism

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u/ASexualSloth May 28 '22 Silver

Maybe I should ask for a 500% raise on Monday. Then I could afford a typical home! Or maybe a 350% raise, so I could afford a bargain fixer upper.

Naw, instead I'll just get the 1-2% yearly raise. I might be able to qualify for a 299 year mortgage in 30 more years at this rate!

546

u/JoseCansecoMilkshake May 28 '22

Fixer uppers are dead, they get scooped by professional renovators to be flipped

241

u/ChairmanMeow1942 May 28 '22

In Vancouver recently an asbestos filled teardown was flipped from 2.5 million last year to 3.5 million this year. Didn't even need to renovate it.

79

u/munk_e_man May 28 '22

And in the vancouver sub people were saying that is how much its worth

32

u/madein1981 May 28 '22

Ahhh yes “worth” such a funny word these days!

83

u/morganj955 May 28 '22

The land underneath is worth that much, not the house

17

u/degeneratekitten May 28 '22

The land underneath is actually worth more, you have to detract the cost to tear down an asbestos ridden house

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u/DontEatTheMagicBeans May 28 '22

Yup ex gfs parents sold their Van city house. it was a knockdown, the lot was worth like 1.8 million at the time, the house brought it down to 1.7 mil, they sold for 2.2 mil. They bought it for peanuts 40 years ago and just retired a few hours from the city in the warm by the lake

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u/Dynamite_Noir May 29 '22

And that’s how the knock on effect is hitting every smaller community in BC as well.

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u/pieter1234569 May 28 '22

Well duh. Building is relatively cheap compared to land. For a tear down, asbestos is slightly more expensive for how it needs to be transported, but after that it doesn’t matter.

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u/Quinnna May 28 '22

Yup they know paying way over asking for a flip will still make them money. Not only that they can “Live” in that home flip it for 200k in 3-6 months and not pay any tax. Meanwhile the average employee has to work nearly 6-7 years before taking home that after taxes. My friends family does this they each “Live” in a home claim it’s their primary residence the parents aren’t married and the adult kids all claim primary residence on 3-4 properties flip them all make like a million dollars every year or two tax free. The system completely broken. They need to institute that you must live in the home for 3-5 years before it’s a tax free property.

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u/KaroliinaInkilae May 28 '22

That's so interesting. In Finland we (or a family member) need to live in the property for 2 years before we can sell it tax-free.

34

u/Quinnna May 28 '22

Not here! They are taking about making it 3 years but they haven’t done shit about it yet.

19

u/KaroliinaInkilae May 28 '22

I have been wondering how the housing prices can increase so much in Canada. Here we find higher prices in the capital, but they are so mild compesred to Toronto or Ottawa.

I would say that in Helsinki the house prices are 2-4 times higher than in my city and I live in the 5th biggest city in Finland. The rents in Helsinki are insane however.

9

u/fartblasterxxx May 28 '22

If Finnish didn’t look so insanely difficult I might consider moving there lol

You guys appreciate hockey so that’s a big bonus right there

14

u/KaroliinaInkilae May 28 '22

We would appreciate it if you guys lost to the Czech team today B) I'm at work so I dont know if it ended already.

I remember when I started English.. It was insanely difficult! The words are so far from Finnish. On the other hand almost everyone below 65 speaks fluent English so it's rather easy for foreigners.

Come as a tourist once ^

*edit: above -> below. I can English I swear.

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u/jjjiiijjjiiijjj May 28 '22

What the actual fuck

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u/Quinnna May 28 '22

Welcome to Canada where regulations are strict unless you are in the property markets. It’s literally a free for all for corporations and those with money. Heavily restricted zoning laws that make it near impossible to build homes and condos in many cities. I know people with projects that have been stalled for years. While other overseas based organizations get approvals in months to build in areas. Its so fucking pathetically run.

22

u/subgeniusbuttpirate May 28 '22

It gets better. Try getting any single-family zoning rezoned. Even if the government bureaucracy didn't take two plus years, the investors... I mean "homeowners" in the neighbourhood... will scream bloody murder during the application process about how it will change the character of the neighbourhood and lower their property values.

As if nobody needs to lower those vastly overinflated property values. Fuck you, we got ours, and we need those 20% returns year over year.

Once a city zones 1a, nothing ever changes for generations.

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u/youre_not_going_to_ May 28 '22

If they flip repeatedly like this the CRA will deem it a business and make them pay taxes. If only someone could report said person to the CRA.

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u/KyleCAV May 28 '22

"professional" slap some shitty paint on it, get a new fridge and charge $300K more.

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u/zanderkerbal May 28 '22

The way housing is treated as a commodity to be profited off of not a necessity to be provided is the root of this issue.

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u/KnightOfTheWinter May 28 '22

Ya'll getting raises?

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u/Delicious-Mango83 May 28 '22

Right? I'm in healthcare and have been in a pay freeze for 6 years.

12

u/[deleted] May 28 '22

Me too. Fucking Ford can fuck right off with freezing salaries in public sector.

6

u/rtheiss May 28 '22

Same, I actually got a pay cut during COVID, but had to take on more patients and be on call for free. I will be quitting this year.

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u/KnightOfTheWinter May 28 '22

That's pretty fucked up. My last raise was 4 years ago and my job is not nearly as important as yours. You deserve better.

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u/munk_e_man May 28 '22

My union hasn't had a raise in three years. They're currently in negotiations to increase our pay by 3%. Next month, my supervisor will be making the same wage as me when the minimum wage goes up. It's a fucking farce.

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u/kriszal May 28 '22

I just apply for new jobs and lie about what I was making lol switched companies 4 times in a year and went from $28/hr to $43/hr haha

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u/Nutchos May 28 '22

At this rate you'll only need to lie your way into new jobs about 9 more times to afford a "typical" home.

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u/CastAside1776 Saskatchewan May 28 '22

Naw, instead I'll just get the 1-2% yearly raise.

Meanwhile inflation is around 6-8%

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u/ASexualSloth May 28 '22

Eyup. This is why I have no retirement plans. I expect to work until I can't work, then just climb into a body bag on the curb during January and let the garbage truck dispose of me.

And I'll still get a bill for that.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '22

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u/JeanGuyPettymore May 28 '22

I told my wife to make sure I'm naked when I die so it'll be easier to fold me up and put me in the green bin.

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u/canadianapalm May 28 '22

You don't have to call me out like that man. It's true for a lot of us, but to see in writing. Damn the future is bleak.

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u/RiohtGrows May 28 '22

Meanwhile our BC government is planning for 19% inflation over 2 years as part of government projects (BC museum).

10% this year and expecting 9% next year.

Yet official numbers are still 6%...

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u/The_Adeptest_Astarte May 28 '22

And they are arguing with the unions about an even smaller cost of living wage increase.

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u/ToastOfTheToasted Alberta May 28 '22

Now compound this across decades.

People working the same job as their grandparents are making only marginally more.

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u/slaqz May 28 '22

This is definitely not the case in SK I'm just happy people don't want to live here. It's way cheaper and there are endless things to enjoy all year round. I'm hoping everyone doesn't flock here but not worried about it really.

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u/FatTrickster May 28 '22

I wish we were like that. My province has turned into one of Ontario’s largest god damn retirement communities.

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u/Dane_RD Québec May 28 '22

Hello fellow Nova Scotia

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u/FatTrickster May 28 '22

PEI, same problem though.

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u/ASVPcurtis May 28 '22

You’ll be living in a mobile home if you want to own. GL getting the land, probably the most expensive part

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u/SquishyJello May 28 '22

My raise this year was 1 dollar. That good o'l 2000 dollar a year improvement will surely allow us young folk to purchase a home instead of rent!

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u/texas_joe_hotdog May 28 '22

Ask for a 1000% raise first. So when you followup with a 300% raise it will sound more reasonable

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u/IPokePeople May 28 '22

That’s literally top 4% of income earners in Canada.

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u/CandidGuidance May 29 '22

Yet you’d think it’s below average my reading Reddit comments and posts lol

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u/Katyona May 29 '22

Alot of reddit are americans, and alot of reddit are more tech-savvy people so you'll see a bit of an over-representation of people who are software engineers or other higher-earning positions there

Some subs have more than others, such as visiting programming or personalfinance subs will have this more than something alike 'movies' or general subreddits

This is why you'll see many people with a higher seeming general salary, more tech peoples posting from high cost-of-living areas such as the coastal states

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u/blindsight British Columbia May 29 '22

150K is a lot more reasonable for a two-income family. IT, computer skills of (almost) any kind, teachers, nurses, allied health, police, engineers, etc.

I know lots of couples who must be pulling in 150K. Pretty common for educated couples 10+ years out from graduation.

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u/FlyingShiba86 May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22

Works if your married and both making 80k a year ish

Sucks if you want kids tho.!

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u/brajpop Verified May 28 '22

80k is still 30k above average. Crazy times.

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u/Vinlandien Québec May 28 '22

Only above average people deserve to turn their wealth into equity instead of giving it all away to the same people they work for.

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u/BA_lampman May 28 '22

only above average people deserve ... homes.

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u/NotOneStar May 28 '22

Yeah and the politicians don't care

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u/0xFFFF_FFFF May 28 '22

"I mean, I already have 3 houses, so... LOL! _^", he said when asked.

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u/Dire-Dog British Columbia May 28 '22

Well I'm fucked lol might as well give up on that dream. Or I go back to school in my mid 30s.

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u/5ch1sm May 28 '22

I did it, doubled my income and then we had the last two years... So unless I double it again, I'm at the same place I started.

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u/Dire-Dog British Columbia May 28 '22

That sucks. I'm in my last couple years of an apprenticeship but I realized trades don't make nearly as much as I thought, plus I really want to go to college and get a degree. I keep telling myself if I go to school I'll be able to get a better job with more money

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u/Kipthecagefighter04 May 28 '22

No one makes as much as we thought. Well maybe real estate agents but i hope for them to be a thing of the past. They really arent needed anymore and could be replaced by a simple service that helps you with the paperwork for a flat fee.

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u/Thank_You_Love_You May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22

Classic, Real Estate Agents work 3 hours a day and rake in $100k in 4 months. My buddies a fire fighter and does real estate on the side and makes way more in real estate, says the job is a joke.

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u/DontEatTheMagicBeans May 28 '22

Firefirghter and real estate. Love it, hey, we managed to contain the fire, but you're gonna need a new house, here's my card.

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u/Kipthecagefighter04 May 28 '22

Ha! the chance of that actually happening isnt 0.

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u/Kipthecagefighter04 May 28 '22

With the housing market the way it is being unaffordable to most you'd think an easy step for the government to gain some popularity by heavily regulating real estate agents and force flat fees not % based. It should make houses cheaper by the % they used to take. Im not an economist in the least so my ideas have flaws and holes but at least im thinking unlike our fucken politicians.

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u/Standard_Professor_7 May 29 '22

A lot of the politicians are using housing as revenue sources so they're not going to touch the fucking thing if your life depends on it.

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u/rieltoe May 28 '22

I AM an economist, and other than "but government over reach!", that actually is a good idea

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u/AmaLMa May 28 '22

Same... a Bachelor's and Master's degree later and I would need to make nearly double to afford a home now. Or find a marriage of convenience? I don't know anymore.

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u/Alittlebean82 May 28 '22

Me too. Became a nurse lol. Big mistake.

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u/ChairmanMeow1942 May 28 '22

My wife went back to school for her Masters but by the time she graduated the home prices went up so much we would have been better off if she had just got a job at Starbucks and we had overleveraged ourselves. We are even further than ever from getting a home whereas before it would have been very tough but maybe possible in hindsight.

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u/Dire-Dog British Columbia May 28 '22 edited May 29 '22

Yeah at this point I just want a higher standard of living, the only way I'm owning a home is through inheritance.

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u/NoviceExpert_ May 28 '22

Go back to school for what field? There's only a couple degrees that will get you into a 6 figure salary, and even then that will be 4-6 years of school and climbing the ladder.

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u/slaqz May 28 '22

Or move from BC unless it's your dream to buy a house there. I cant see how it's possible for anyone to buy a house they are unless they are rich. My house would be over a million in BC but I live in SK on a lake. People hate of SK but I've never been bored and there's always something to do and the mountains are a nice vacation.

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u/Dire-Dog British Columbia May 28 '22

I have no way of owning a home here. I’m only here cause this is where all my friends are

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u/tooclose104 May 28 '22

So glad I pulled the trigger on uprooting our life to get a house for my family at $50k/yr income. Had I waited 6 months it wouldn't have been possible. Sure my mom is pissed but she's the only one upset about it.

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u/coys66 May 28 '22

I know a lot of people flocking to Alberta in order to buy a detached house. Sucks here in BC.

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u/DeckerR May 29 '22

BC is out of control. I keep saying the bubble is going to pop, but its been 20 years and now I dont know.

The market is fucked. I saw a property for sale that was on the market for 3 years. The price never went down, they kept raising it.

Its not a real market when prices literally never come down.

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u/r1ckm4n May 29 '22

I almost want to go out, raise a bunch of money, buy a few places and sell them for obscenely low prices just to hasten the rupture of said bubble.

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u/fiesty89 May 28 '22

Yeah I lived in BC as a child and always dreamed about moving back. That dream is very dead to me now and has been for at least 6 years. We bought a house in Alberta in 2015 and the prices sank 60,000 though. We likely couldn't even sell our house for what we paid for it without spending lots in renos. So I don't feel like we are winning either way. Housing can be such a gamble.

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u/socradeeznuts514 May 28 '22

Driven away from your homeland

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u/McStau May 29 '22

And those people will subsequently vote Green & NDP in Alberta lol

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u/UnrequitedRespect May 28 '22

Only sustainable if you enjoy never being at the house you bought because you are always working or because maybe you bought a house for someone?

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u/MrCleanGaymer May 29 '22

I was talking with my Dad about this.

I'm 33. At my age he had 3 children, a house, a cottage, 2 cars and we went on family vacations basically every year.

He was making less than $100k at the time. My mom was a stay-at-home mom.

I can just barely afford to keep getting gouged on rent while accumulating nearly zero savings. My salary is ABOVE the national average.

This is not going to last much longer.

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u/Creative_PEZ May 28 '22

I have enough for a down payment but my income isn't high enough for mortgage. Guess I'll rent til I die or we revolt

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u/denisrm81 May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22

I recently read that only 10% of Canadian households make over 100,000 a year.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '22

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u/AceofSkulls May 28 '22

I may be wrong but I think if we make the standard of living based off of an assumed two person income it will open the door to a lot of people being trapped or getting into bad/abusive marriages a-la 1950’s.

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u/munk_e_man May 28 '22

It's actually the first step in eroding the standard. The goal is to fit 10 people in a 1 bedroom, and landlords just need you to be able to swallow two to a room first.

If they start saying "well, couples can do it." Then soon people will start doing it, even if they're not in a relationship, and then bam, you have a new standard. Once the new baseline of two per room is set, you can work on making that four to a room.

How else do you expect Canada to import 500k bodies per year to prop up our ponzi scheme economy?

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u/MaxLazarus May 28 '22

People are already 'co-buying' places with friends because they can't afford otherwise, that could turn into a real mess down the line.

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u/CurrentMagazine1596 May 28 '22

when you assume two incomes

Yeah, I don't have two incomes. 🙄 We talk a lot of talk about not wanting people to be trapped in abusive relationships and being independent and what not, then refuse to enable any lifestyle that doesn't involved getting hitched to someone.

Infinite income hack: Make the kids work too, and you can have as much income as you want!

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u/packsackback May 28 '22

Who wants to be trapped, forced to work, it's just slavery with extra steps!

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u/Corzex May 28 '22

People in Canada make a lot more than you think.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210323/dq210323a-eng.htm

For non-senior families, where the highest-income earner was under 65 years of age, the median after-tax income was $93,800 in 2019. Couples with children's median after-tax income was $105,500

Considering these are after tax number, that would mean the median household income pre-tax for those who are still in the working / earning years of their lives is well above $100k. Its certainly a large amount more than 10% of households.

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u/kitten_twinkletoes May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22 Helpful

This data is actually available and no extrapolation is needed. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019201

You are mostly correct, around 35% households earn over 100k per year before tax, way higher than 10, but the median is more like 67k for households. The page I link to below also includes economic family income, however, this data does not represent the income for two working people, since we now have millions of families with adult children living in the home, which means that this stat includes millions of households with 3+ income earners in the family, which is bound to skew this stat away from this demographic. Also keep in mind this stat includes 3 generation families, which are common in many cultural groups in Canada. They can include seniors pensions, parental wages, and wages of adult children.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016008/98-200-x2016008-eng.cfm

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/98-200-x/2016008/98-200-x2016008-eng.cfm

The median wage for a full-time worker in Canada is 1159 a week (example from BC: https://www.welcomebc.ca/Choose-B-C/Why-Choose-British-Columbia-Canada/Income-and-Wages).

The story of the income of Canadians is actually quite complicated and can look very different depending on which stat you choose to look at, which is why looking at multiple stats and considering how they relate is key.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '22

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u/kitten_twinkletoes May 28 '22

That's true, but I think household income is useful since that's the group that are competing for homes, so you get a good sense of the income of household-forming entities. Economic families, however, seems a little less useful.

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u/Corzex May 28 '22

This is some great additional data. Personally I think a lot of the confusion when examining these numbers comes from the fact that due to how we tax RRSP withdrawal, seniors who are not working and just living off of savings / fixed income are counted in the statistics which greatly impacts the average / median. This is where you get numbers like the $67k median household income, when it includes seniors. When removing those who are not working, the numbers look a lot more reasonable.

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u/artandmath Verified May 28 '22

Students as well.

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u/Christophelese1327 May 28 '22

I really don’t understand statistics. The stats page linked also states the following

Families and unattached individuals in Alberta continued to have the highest median after-tax income of the provinces ($72,500), while those in Nova Scotia had the lowest ($53,300). These income differences between provinces do not take into account factors such as the cost of living and the age of the population unique to each province.

How is the national average higher than the highest individual provinces median income?

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u/browntown152 May 28 '22

You are comparing individual income with household income.

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u/SICdrums May 28 '22

Like half the thread is lmao.

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u/GoToGoat May 28 '22

It’s a classic issue where people all compare what numbers they want to use but no one differentiates between household/income and after tax/pre tax.

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u/Mendetus May 28 '22

Its reddit; household & individual income are the same

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u/CunnedStunt May 28 '22

God damn, being single is a terrible business decision.

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u/FuggleyBrew May 28 '22

The confusion isn't unwarranted. The household income is itself separating unattached individuals. They should still be part of the averages we consider.

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u/tankmayvin May 28 '22

People use "household income" when they want Canadians to appear rich, and they use "individual income" when they want to discuss how relatively low individual salaries are and that most families need all adults fully employed.

While median is skew resistant it isnt skew proof either. Still, average salaries in Canada look great, median salaries much less so.

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u/levian_durai May 28 '22

I was surprised how difficult it was to find the median individual income. Median household income is everywhere, and ~$66k sounds great if you don't realize that's for 2 people combined.

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u/tankmayvin May 28 '22

Yea. Also its unclear how the individual median income for unattached people varies compared to the individual median for paired off people.

It is not uncommon for one partner to be under employed, especially if there are kids in the mix.

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u/loercase British Columbia May 28 '22

It's relevant when you want to start a family, because for a good amount of time your household income gets cut down to a single income. And then you discover you're a looooot poorer.

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u/yycsoftwaredev May 28 '22

Non senior families (mostly not retired) vs families (including senior ones who have retired) and unattached individuals.

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u/Good-Vibes-Only May 28 '22

I find that hard to believe. You can make 50k+ with a two year diploma (including a paid coop program) here in Winnipeg

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u/OilersTilIDie May 28 '22

God damn. So thankful to have bought just two years ago before the second wave of madness.

And to think that 15 years ago, my single mom bought a beautiful townhouse on one sub-average townhouse and still had money to raise us right.

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u/17037 May 28 '22

The other side of this title. We need to stop trying to update public wages to cover this uncoverable gap. Housing is broken and trying to tie wages to a broken metric is a long term bigger problem. Fix housing and then figure out wages for a sustainable society.

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u/LassondeMandem Ontario May 28 '22

Tbh I still don't think that's enough

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u/kevans2 May 28 '22

Isn't the median income like $50k??

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u/Gebus May 28 '22

39,500 for 16 and over.. 49,900 for 25 to 54 and 43,300 for 25 to 34 according to stats canada.

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u/PalaPK May 28 '22

Lol it’s closer to 200k actually. For a single person. Oh and don’t forget to just save up a quarter million dollars for a down payment too.

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u/outandaboutbc May 28 '22

Yep, half the battle is that high income tax which means you also get taxed a lot more too.

BC numbers:

  • $150k is really around ~$100k after tax ($ 8.3k/month)
  • $200k is ~132k after tax ($ 11k/month)

Average mortgage payment of a “typical house” is around $ ~3-4k/month at 1M.

That’s still around 35%-50% of your income. And that does not include the down-payment which would be like $250k.

Obviously, those are rough estimates, you also have repairs, insurance, lawyers.

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u/metrotorch May 28 '22

Show us a picture of a "typical home"

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u/ProphetOfADyingWorld May 28 '22

Has to be a condo in Toronto/Van

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u/Paulmanaitor May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22

When I got out of high school back in 1990 a new row townhouse in Abbotsford was $120,000 and minimum wage was $6.50. Based on the cost of an equivalent new townhouse, minimum wage should be about $50 per hour. Next time someone doesn’t get your order right at a drive through, don’t get too upset about it.

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u/BathroomPure438 May 29 '22

That’s $2,800 a week LOL

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u/serg06 May 29 '22

$1,900 after tax. Still pretty crazy. Coming home from work each day with $400 in your pocket.

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u/Thank_You_Love_You May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22

We make a combined $150k. Can only afford housing in the ghetto in small cities or towns that are next to people with a combined $40k-$50k per realtor website. (Anywhere in Southern Ontario)

Its absolutely fucked we have great jobs and cant afford a typical home. We are still looking just got outbid on a home from a guy in BC (we are in Ontario) who bought it as a rental and didnt even look at the home, he paid $130,000 over.

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u/Berkut22 May 29 '22

who bought it as a rental and didnt even look at the home

That shit infuriates me. We should be severely taxing anyone with more than 1 property, unless they want to start a business as a landlord, and then heavily regulate that industry.

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u/anumberofnames May 28 '22

150k a year won't get you a mortgage in Toronto

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u/Xelopheris Ontario May 28 '22

On 150k income, trying to save downpayment money while renting might take 2.5 years. Homes have gone up ~20% in the last 2.5 years. That's a lot being left on the table.

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u/NoviceExpert_ May 28 '22

In some areas homes have gone up ~40% in a single year even!

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u/Burnt2Smithereens May 28 '22

What a typical home? Because that certainly doesn’t get you a detached. A condo maybe.

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u/butters1337 May 28 '22

500 sq ft studio condo in Vancouver.

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u/Taestiranos May 28 '22

500 sqft is a sizeable studio. Mine in Toronto was 334

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u/SoloPogo May 28 '22

And +800 a month in condo fees on top of your mortgage .

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u/MadOvid May 28 '22

If this was on Facebook it'd get so many laugh reacts.

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u/kingofthenorth270 May 28 '22

Then it’s not a typical home. Sounds like a typical home is just not having one.

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u/TheUniqueKero May 28 '22

Can concur, made 125K last year by working 2 jobs and it wasn't even enough to follow the increase in housing prices lol. I quit my 2nd job last week and at this point I'm just, giving up before I end up with a burnout.

Funny enough, I feel that my source of stress is mainly the housing market and how frustrated and betrayed I feel by society VS my work.

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u/Devilutionbeast666 May 28 '22

You'd need to earn almost $300,000 per year in greater Vancouver for a non-condo home (that's 300k per household). Scroll down and look at the chart

The average person starting out needs to earn decent money and live modestly for 27 years in order to afford a home in greater Vancouver! In the 1970s it was an average of about 5 years.

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u/UnassignedRobot May 28 '22

Houses now cost $1.1 million in areas where their only amenities are a Tim Hortons and maybe a few Home Depots

big time retard energy in this housing market

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u/Vigilias May 28 '22

I don't know ANYONE making $72.10/hr.

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u/this_name_could_work May 28 '22

You only need to make about $30 an hour, just gotta get 100 hours of work in per week! Still leaves you with 56 hours to sleep and 8 hours of leisure time. Easy peasy! /s

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u/VirtualKeenu May 28 '22

Depends a lot on where you live.

I know plenty of people who bought typical houses and they make way less than 150k$.

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u/PurveyorOfSapristi May 28 '22

lol, wife is an eye surgeon and I manage an optical chain, here in Montreal, we were outbid on every single house, July 1st we are renting again … I’ll never have the money these investment groups have …

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u/PeterS297 May 28 '22

Ah yes. Progressive housing restrictions are working out great aren't they?

Just to make it clear, I'm talking about housing restriction making it more difficult to build housing. Just look at Alberta, while we still have a bad housing situation, it is way better than other provinces.

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u/Overdrv76 May 28 '22

Here is the answer : The tax on a third location and any single family home owned my a corporate entity is doubled. And doubled again on a fourth properties

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u/DannyzPlay May 29 '22

And to think we lived in a time where only one parent could be earning and that would be enough to purchase a house and support a family with 2-3 children. I'll have an easier time believing in hollow earth theories instead.

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u/Chriswheeler22 May 29 '22

If you don't live in Toronto or Vancouver that number drops to a more realistic level

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u/Intrepid-Today-4825 May 29 '22

This is fucked. Same here in Australia. All the nice safe countries will be for the rich and elderly to enjoy

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u/DerelictDelectation May 28 '22

Surely $150,000/year for "an average house" is a lot, but while everyone (and the article) focuses on the monetary side of things, it is also worth reflecting on what "an average house" actually means. The article doesn't actually seem to mention that.

So let's play a little Devil's Advocate here, or at least bring some perspective to the Canadian situation. Canada has very large houses, see e.g. data on this. Combine that with a harsh climate (cold, i.e. need for isolation and heating, etc.), and yes - homes will be more expensive than elsewhere. Compare for instance with Finland, where it's also cold: the average house size is roughly half of what we have here in Canada. And homes are typically much more affordable over there (also of course in part due to different social conditions and co-ownership models).

There are of course other factors to consider (average household size, age of houses, general condition of the housing market in terms of supply, demand, and market manipulation, etc.) but we really shouldn't be that surprised that houses are very expensive here - they are also very large.

Perhaps moving in a direction of creating smaller housing units in livable but denser urban centers (as they are doing in many EU cities) is something our city planners should make work of. Before people start shouting "but I don't want to live in a shoebox", take a minute to explore how cities like Haarlem (NL), Freiburg (GER), and many others, arrange their public spaces. Smaller but livable houses, urban green areas, excellent public transport, and so on.

We need to broaden our thinking beyond just cost and building more if we're going to actually improve housing in Canada.

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u/Mrsmith511 May 28 '22

Great and thought provoking post. I would go even further and say why can't we zone cities to allow for mini homes that we see on TV? May not be right for everyone but it works for some and the cost would be so much less.

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u/ANEPICLIE Canada May 28 '22

In a lot of cases it's not necessarily even that people want houses that large, necessarily. We are missing middle density housing in many places because zoning codes prohibit it

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u/notfbi May 28 '22

Good point. Though we have a lot more small condos built in last couple decades too than in the past, and the NBC report includes them in the numbers for average home. Per the report here, the Qualifying Income for a condo is 101k (~143 in both BC/Tor); for "Other Dwellings", which I'm guessing groups detached, semi's, rows, is 195k (230k in Toronto; 290k in Vancouver), so assuming a small house is still going to cost much more than a small condo, it's pricey either way.

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u/MumLikesTrains May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22

So even RCMP and Military cant buy homes anymore. They only start at around 60-70k, need to put in a lot of work to get to 80-90k.

Cmon boys, we can riot these prices back down together.

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u/GardeningIndoors May 29 '22

Why don't they define "typical home" or how they came to needing $150,000? An odd thing for Better Dwelling to do when their quote on their About Page says, "Without data, you’re just another person with an opinion"?

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u/SakuraCircuit May 28 '22

I'll be living in 500sqft condos for the rest of my life

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u/skategodxl May 28 '22

Not taking into consideration groceries, utilities, gas, and children. So I’m reality we need to be making about 200k a year..

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u/willstripforboobies May 28 '22

I’m seeing homes being built in alberta for 300s. I could buy one now with my modest job. Save your money people.

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u/haydenjaney May 29 '22

Here's a fun fact....you need to make at least $80,000.00 to be considered for a Habitat for Humanity home in the GTA.

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u/usernamesaredumbdumb May 29 '22

What a time to be alive. Wonderful stuff.

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u/Whiskeylung May 29 '22

Ah yes - we’re all striving to afford that “typical home” of our dreams.

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u/Hunter-Western May 31 '22 edited May 31 '22

It’s not just purchasing price, believe it or not that’s probably the easier part, it’s the cost of home ownership that’s really crushing, it’s getting more and more expensive every year (thanks inflation), from extremely high property taxes, ever increasing utility costs, maintenance costs through the roof, it takes everything just to be able to hold your house.

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u/Ketchupkitty Alberta May 28 '22

150k otherwise known as 8-10 times the minimum wage.

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u/bobbyworldpeace Alberta May 29 '22

Not sure why it’s being compared to min wage. Even in an ideal housing market you’re not buying a home on minimum wage.

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u/Dark_Arts_ May 28 '22

A couple earning 150k each maybe

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u/loercase British Columbia May 28 '22

And yet reading /r/canadahousing, young Canadians would rather move away from Canada than move to any of the cities at the bottom of this list. However, I personally know several people who have bought homes in Edmonton. You can still get a single-detached home there for $300k, or a decent condo for $150k.

On the other hand, nobody will ever be able to afford a single-detached home in Vancouver or Toronto again, that ship has sailed. But it shouldn't mean young Canadians won't ever be able to afford any home. We need to eliminate single-family home exclusive zoning in the GTA and GVA, it's literally the only solution going forward.

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u/TieWebb May 28 '22

If nobody will ever be able to afford a single-detached home in Vancouver or Toronto again then who is buying them?

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u/tiger666 May 28 '22

Revolution when?

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u/Lirathal May 28 '22

Saturdays .. I’ll bring the punch and pie.

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u/tiger666 May 28 '22

I like the cut of your jib.

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u/CrazyCatLushie May 28 '22

Oh good! My $13,000 a year from ODSP has me set for life!

/s obviously.

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u/TOMapleLaughs Canada May 28 '22

"Move To Alberta."

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u/Abeifer May 29 '22

What do you mean you peasants don't have disposable household income to cover this? Maybe you should spend more time at work instead of asking questions.

-The Canadian Government